- I was told I could rent to cover the cost of the timeshare.
- I was told maintenance fees could be eliminated.
- I was told the timeshare was an investment with equity – easy to resell.
- I was told I could easily refinance.
- I was told that if I did not convert to points, my heirs would be responsible.
After Inside Timeshare has heard from several timeshare buyers who were sold on the benefit of renting to cover the costs of loan payments and maintenance fees. If the timeshare contract states that renting is allowed, then reading the contract does not help to determine that renting to cover costs is not a feasible strategy. The contract rescission period does not help, because no one would attempt to rent a newly purchased timeshare while on vacation. It’s not until the buyer attempts to rent for income that he or she learns of hidden fees and other obstacles. If the buyer counted on renting, they find themselves with no choice but to default. Based on reports from those who purchased from a total of seven developers, this false claim is happening industry-wide.
Report 6 of 6: Timeshare Renting by an Air Force Veteran, currently enlisted with the Air National Guard
Prior Reports Submitted by Active Duty Navy, Marines, and Air Force Service Members:
Report 1 of 6: Active Duty Navy, Chief Petty Officer, 14 years served
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=1098
Report 2: Marine Veteran, 26 years served, security clearance
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=1115
Report 3: Active Duty Navy, 12 years served
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=1151
Report 4: Active Duty Navy, 18 years served
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=1191
Report 5: Husband & Wife, both Active Duty Air Force 10, 9 years
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=1243
Timeshare Renting
Several Westgate buyers have reported that they were encouraged to rent for income. A team of frustrated Westgate owners filed a public records request with the Florida Attorney General. They received approximately 500 Westgate complaints. Buying based on the assured ability to rent to cover costs is a common theme. It is illegal to record a sales presentation in Florida without the other party being aware, so complaints are routinely dismissed as unsubstantiated.
Westgate Timeshare Hostages is a Facebook group launched late December of 2021. Membership has already exceeded 800 members. https://www.facebook.com/groups/westgatehostages
We have heard from several Bluegreen Vacations owners and members who have had their accounts suspended because of “suspected” commercial activity. Unlike Westgate, it is relatively easy to let others use Bluegreen points. Bluegreen’s suspicion of prohibited commercial activity is based only on reservations made in names other than the account holder. We will be hearing from several Bluegreen members in upcoming articles who say they were encouraged by sales agents to buy additional points to rent to offset maintenance fees.
Leave renting for profit to the professionals, like KOALA, an innovative rental platform that researches listings so that renters are assured that what they thought they rented is what they actually rented. https://tarda.org/f/a-new-timeshare-rental-platform
I am enlisted with the Air National Guard with veteran status and benefits. I plan to serve a minimum of 20 years. I have a security clearance.
In September of 2021, my family of three purchased a 4 BR Westgate Resorts unit at Westgate Lakes in Orlando. We were assured of the ability to rent to cover the cost of the timeshare, and to earn income. After learning that renting to cover even just the cost of the timeshare is all but impossible, I reached out to After Inside Timeshare and was referred to Westgate’s Legacy department. In their dismissal, included below, they asked me to provide the reason why national security is threatened. The reason is because a loan default can lead to the loss of a security clearance, which can lead to involuntary separation from service. I counted on the ability to rent to cover the cost of the timeshare. We would have never purchased a 4 BR timeshare for just the three of us.
Our Westgate sales agent, Harry, said they had a deal for us because someone was giving up a 4 BR unit. Harry said if we ever wanted to sell the timeshare we could, mentioning that the original price was $75,000. Our purchase price was $50,954.42. Our down payment was $4,799 and we financed $44,711.19. Our monthly payments are $667 per month. We have learned that we would be lucky to receive a small fraction of the purchase price on resale, and resale would be impossible with an outstanding loan.
Our purchase included “Unlimited Getaways” that Harry encouraged us to buy and then sell to others. He explained that the variable rate for a week ranged from $49 to $399, but we could turn around and sell the week for $1,000, or whatever the market would bear. Harry said one owner rents her unit out online with Airbnb and Westgate doesn’t touch any of the money, adding that theoretically, we could rent out Getaways every week of the year. Westgate has a policy about renting, but Harry explained that there is a loophole so that the owner gets the money instead of Westgate. The money we would receive could go towards maintenance fees. We would also be reimbursed if Westgate made money using our property when we didn’t use it. Harry said our unit was our property year-round so we would be entitled to income year-round. He said Westgate would pay us more in a year than our annual maintenance fees, which are $1,666. Harry had said our maintenance fees would be under $1,100.
Before we went to sign documents, Harry said we should not mention anything we discussed. This was understandable, considering the loophole. He said he wanted to go out to dinner, but when I called he did not respond. He has yet to reach out to us about our concerns, despite offering to give us any assistance we might need.
We booked a week in 2022 planning to pay the maintenance fees for 2022. My fiance called Westgate and was told the resort would charge us $400 for each reservation. That was not what we were told. There were other obstacles. Three or four Westgate customer service representatives provided evasive answers that did not address our direct questions as to how to make this timeshare work as a rental investment.
I filed a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau on April 18, 2022. I also filed a complaint with the Florida Attorney General, the Federal Trade Commission, and Seniors Vs Crime, a Special Project of the Florida Attorney General. I also reached out to ARDA via their Responsible Exit website: https://responsibleexit.com/
The fact remains that our small family of three would NEVER HAVE PURCHASED A 4 BEDROOM UNIT were it not for being sold on the ability to rent to cover costs.
Response from Westgate Lakes Resort & Spa to the Florida Attorney General’s office
February 11, 2022
Karla Castaneda, Office of Citizen Services, Florida Attorney General’s Office
Dear Ms Castaneda,
Westgate’s corporate office is in receipt of your correspondence regarding Mr. xxx’s complaint. We appreciate the opportunity to respond. First and foremost, we ask you to understand that the consumer’s entire complaint is a litany of verbal allegations. Contrary to Mr. xxx’s belief, the recording of Westgate closings has voluntarily been in effect for training and quality assurance purposes for well over thirteen years.
Allow us to briefly clarify Mr. xxx’s ownership in order to clarify exactly what he contracted with Westgate. On September 14, 2021, he purchased an ALL-season week in a 4-Bedroom Lock-Off Villa for use every year with the first occupancy in 2022 at the Westgate Lakes Resort & Spa. We ask him to keep in mind that he purchased under the Floating Use Plan, wherein he does not own the use of a specific unit, but a certain unit type, based on availability. Therefore, he has the right to occupy his villa at his home resort during his current year and season of ownership without being charged additional fees. We can confirm for Mr XXXX that full and fair disclosure of these purchase terms was provided on the day of sale.
Allow us to also clarify that Mr. xxx is well within his rights to rent as he sees fit. However, as acknowledged on his signed and initialled Acknowledgement of Representations (AOR) document, he affirmed in paragraph 3 that no representations have been made as to investment or resale potential and that the purchase is primarily for personal use and not investment purposes. Furthermore, it was also affirmed in paragraph 5 that Westgate has no form of resale or rental program, and no salesperson is authorized to make any representations to the contrary. We have attached a copy of this document for further review.
By his own admission, he willingly moved forward in a presentation wherein he was allegedly advised to withhold information during his closing. We can confirm that the entire closing process, as well as the AOR, are designed to raise questions if there is anything at all amiss, whether intentional or otherwise. Additionally, the fact that the AOR is present and at their disposal during the signing, as well as later when they are within their state-mandated rescission period, clearly evidences Westgate’s attempt to be transparent and dissuade both misunderstandings and misrepresentations. This is further evidenced by Westgate’s voluntary process of removing the sales representatives from the closing process altogether once the purchase terms have been clarified. In choosing not to raise any questions or concerns about what was allegedly presented to them, they effectively removed any attempt by Westgate to protect both itself and the consumer. We understand Mr xxx’s concern regarding the Legacy Program. Allow us to clarify that to qualify for this program, the account must be up-to-date, and the mortgage paid off, among other criteria. At this time, his account does not qualify.
Ms Castaneda, Westgate’s review has concluded that Mr. xxx’s contract is valid and enforceable. We encourage him to provide documentation for further review by Corporate Counsel of how his legally binding timeshare purchase is a threat to national security. If he requires further assistance with his account, we encourage him to contact our Account Services
Department at 1-888-999-0101.
Respectfully,
Executive Team
Owner Relations Correspondence
Related articles:
A pending lawsuit accusing Westgate of violating the Military Lending Act:
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=982
Westgate Resorts PDF Link: Westgate Case No 8;22CV-0028-CEH-JSS
Rental complaints submitted by 24 members/owners, who purchased from Westgate Resorts (13) Vacation Village (2), Branson’s Nantucket (3), Exploria (1), Upcoming Bluegreen (6) (Developer 5, 3 resolved) (Developer 6, 1 resolved), Diamond Resorts Upcoming (1)
Are my Consumer Rights being eroded? Westgate by Benn Dover (1) February 25, 2022
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=394
Nine Westgate Families (2 – 10) March 4, 2022
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=440
Exploria v Austin Aaronson (1) March 11, 2022
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=475
Sheri Vacation Village (1 + 1 upcoming) March 18, 2022
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=517
Westgate by Abdur Rashid (11) April 22, 2022
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=723.
Jackie’s Vacays Westgate (12) June 10, 2022
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=955
Branson’s Nantucket (3) May 13, 2022
https://afterinsidetimeshare.com/?p=836
This is the last of the reports in our series that were all prepared for Military Consumer Month, we would like to thank all those who contributed their stories and all the volunteers who have assisted in their preparation, especially Irene Parker. We received and continue to receive very similar complaints from Serving Military to Veterans, some of these are being prepared for publication, and we hope that they do not have to be published, as always we submit them before publication to the developers and hope for a resolution.
What these stories really highlight is the conspiracy of silence and denial, not just from the developers but also the elected lawmakers. We have seen numerous AGs who side with the industry to the detriment of consumers, this has to stop. It is not just the Military but all consumers who are being harmed by this conspiracy that allows Sales Agents to lie & cheat out of sheer greed. They are employed by the developers, the developers should be responsible and held accountable for their sales agents, lawmakers and AGs need to decide if they are there for the people who voted for them or the ones who funded their election campaign.
Timeshare was once a great concept, unfortunately, it has been “bastardized” by pure greed, we see this in virtually all the articles we publish including Europe. Timeshare has become the new word for “FRAUD” and the industry is responsible for that image.
Coming up on Monday we have a look at a briefing paper prepared by the House of Commons Library, these are publicly available and are designed for MPs to get acquainted with a subject which may be up for debate or being investigated by numerous committees. This report is titled “Timeshares: common problems faced by UK owners”, it was researched and written by Lorraine Conway, who considering she more than likely has no actual experience of timeshare has done a good job. All we can hope is it gets the attention it needs.
That is it for this week, the weekend beckons along with the couch and TV, that is if Baby Dog will let me on, so have a great weekend and join us again next week.
Sherida Nett
How many of these sales agents have laid down their lives and signed on the dotted line to protect and defend our country? It’s shameful that money is so much more important than treating our military people with respect.
John
Unfortunately, I think the only way to protect our service members from the pitfalls of timeshare is to educate (or require) them NOT to go to presentations. Timeshare is not a bad product, if sold to those who can afford it, who can be flexible, and can plan well in advance. The military is not a place for these qualities. The industry has “bullet-proofed” itself with the verbal representation clause and the no-record requirement, so the consumer is at in an unfair position.
Government does not stand ready to help with regulation. Some states (Florida, Nevada and South Carolina) get much revenue from timeshares. So – stop military families from even entertaining these lies, and educate the rest of the public about the fact that the sales process in timeshare is FILLED with lies.
By the way, the one grand contribution that the exit companies have done (other than screw people) is that they have cast a negative light on the industry. So new prospects have to think about what they are getting into when they get offered that “free” dinner or that gift card. A reverse benefit. 🙂
Timeshare Insider
Thank you for your comment, you have hit the nail on the head as they say.
Becky
Presentations are sugar-coated by the resorts. There are sales pitches in which sales agents LIE in an industry RIDDLED WITH CORRUPTION. It needs to change, both for the military AND for civilians.
FOCUS.
It’s bad enough when average citizens are harmed, but when regulators are not bothered by service members who put their life on the line to protect us, while risking losing their military career so that an unscrupulous sales agent can earn a commission, well then something is very wrong with our society.
Benn Dover
Having obtained 4000+ pages of complaints against Westgate from the Florida Attorney General’s Office I would guess that over 90% of the complaints mention being told they could rent to make a profit, to cover maintenance fees, or to cover both loan and maintenance fees. Basically if a consumer shows concern about being able to afford owning a timeshare the sales agents mentioned renting to ease any doubt. Sales Agents may not be “authorized to make any representations” but when they do…it’s beinging over looked. I personally believe 100% of owners were told about rental potential, a large purchase is always easier if you think you have a safety net.
Becky
NOTE: “Presentation” is a sugar-coated word, used by the “resorts”. These are “SalesPitches” in which sales agents LIE. I beg of you…we must STOP blaming the victims. That distraction hinders our efforts to further a VERY important cause. STAFF LIE to coerce people to but. Westgate, Wyndham & BlueGreen for sure are RIDDLED WITH CORRUPTION. Regulations need to change, both for the good of military AND civilians alike.
FOCUS.
It’s bad enough when average citizens are harmed, but when regulators are not bothered by service members who put their life on the line to protect us, while risking losing their military career so that an unscrupulous sales agent can earn a commission, well then something is very wrong with our society.
Chris B.
Your current two-party oligarchy government is not on your side as they tend to side with corrupted industries. So Americans, don’t buy ANYthing at all until you research them to the hilt; you can’t even rely on the BBB since much of their ratings are based on payment from companies. Timeshares tend to be extremely high-pressure traps bc they really don’t want you to research them; researching them can cause them to lose billions of dollars of scammed cash annually. You must protect yourselves since your current government fails to.
Karen Stephanie Vartan
I have had both honest and dishonest time share sales representatives over my 20 years of ownership. It is my impression there was more honesty in the early years. Since 2013, I have had 2 dishonest presentations and 3 which were dishonest in some respects. I am now retired. I had 36 years of association with the Navy, including initial active duty, annual active duty through my Reserve status, and multiple months-long stints of “re-called to active-duty status.” It is my belief that timeshare organizations and agents target military personnel because military personnel have a guaranteed income stream and a naiveté highly biased towards honesty, duty and responsibility. Commands should annually educate all rates and ranks of active duty and reserve personnel, as well as request that spouse support organizations get involved.
Timeshare Insider
Karen, thank you for your comment, I do think you have hit the nail on the head regarding “honesty, duty & responsibility”, traits which the unscrupulous will always manipulate.
Pamela S
My husband would be rolling over in his grave if his security clearance would have been jeopardized because of the time share. In every industry there are going to be bad apples which the consumer relies on during the transaction because they are supposed to be the experts. Based on the number of complaints regarding the ability to rent and/or paying the maintenance fees it is apparent that the presentations are filled with inaccurate information. I don’t know the statistics to back up how many have relied on this presentation as an incentive to buy…probably way more than we think.
As a professional in my field I had to have a college degree, a certification process, and a license. Perhaps the timeshare industry needs to have the same requirements. If licenses are subject to disciplinary action, revocation, or just complaints viewable in an open database maybe the bad apples would go away.
Frankly this is a product that I could live without, although to be fair I have enjoyed many of the places I have visited.
Joan
I have attended many timeshare sales meetings and have owned into Bluegreen about 20 years and Capital several years. It really is ridiculous and should be criminal the way timeshares do people. Sales start off with chit chat in order to get you comfortable and to pick information from you relative to what it would take to sell you. That’s ok. BUT, if you say you’re only interested in cruising, then their timeshare is perfect for them. But, in fact it is not and in fact one can get cruises much cheaper by going to the cruise line for booking. This is just one example. A very recent one was an elderly couple who owned their own travel home and they were convinced to part with $170,000 and this was to help them with gas, etc. Now they can’t pay their mortgage. I have been reading people’s stories, complaints and love for their timeshare, for many years. (Yes, some of us love the Bluegreen timeshare but I’m afraid we’ll all eventually learn how really bad it can be) I have worried for many years because it is quite evident that sales are interested only in obtaining however much money they can from an individual by any means including lying, intimidation and meanness. People are never told such truths as = you won’t be able to get what you want when you want: once you let the days of legal recission pass, you can’t get out:, and even worse, once you get it paid for, they charge you to let you out. It doesn’t matter if you want it or not, you’re stuck. This happens all the time. There are many things wrong. Another one is regarding renting. It has been obvious for years that owners are renting reservations or points to help offset their fees and the ones who got their timeshares for basically free may well be making money at it. I believe they purposely set people up for this scenario. All of a sudden, about two years ago, they started locking people’s accounts, stating that they are making a business of renting. So, people paid for their timeshares, kept up annual fees, dues, rented from others, was encouraged by sales to rent, bought reservations on Bonus Time (through Bluegreen’s program). Some of these people had just paid their annual fees/dues and I know of one who had just paid two years to the tune of $20,000.00. I talked to one of the Bluegreen’s upper level people a few days ago. He informed me that people were warned ahead of time. No they were not. To me, most timeshares are set up in a style to steal from people, entrap them and they have their paperwork fixed to cover their intentions. They well know what they’re doing and it’s wrong. There is not a good enough reason in the world to make people pay for something they do not want. They were not told the truth when they signed. (Oh and another big truth is that it’s worthless when you finally can get out). Sales always told me to just let their company have first chance at it. The last one said that maybe it wouldn’t be worth quite as much as I put in it. The lies are rampant and many. They are still telling owners to rent and even offering a name of a company and phone number who will rent for you. If you’ll get on that Facebook site, you can read for yourself. Just check out Bluegreen Facebook pages and one is just for reporting the lies told daily by sales people. There is not near enough level of fairness. I firmly believe they set it all up to deceive and take from hard working people and to not mind mistreating them and holding them hostage until they decide it’s to their benefit to take back their timeshares for free. It’s a real win for them to sell them again for thousands of dollars to new unsuspecting people. America is in deep trouble. Even high level politicians are in on this thing. This kind of thinking (evil vs. good) and stealing from others, burning and destroying others things, etc. is rampant in America. Utter lawlessness is totally ignored.
Good people fought and died for this country. I am totally amazed at how far to the evil side America has come. Seemingly, nobody can do anything about the ones who care nothing about anybody else. The few people who try seem to be against a brick wall but yet, we can’t give up. When wrong is wrong, it’s plain wrong. Timeshares need more investigations into and need an agency to force them to treat people right. It should be against the law what they are doing. They are harming thousands of innocent people daily when the timeshare could be a wonderful thing. They just plain got way too greedy. I hope that somebody out there will try to help out this situation that affects so many.